Let The Debates Begin!: Windows Goons VS. Linux Fan Boys.
Here is a post from our new friend Simon @ SigmundVoid.com We will be doing some Microsoft vs. Linux postings (debates) between our sites. As you can tell Simon is a Linux Fanboy and we are as they call it… On the dark side…
Now we know Simon’s time is spent creating or searching for custom drivers for his Linux system and trying to get things to work that really weren’t made to work. You know compiling, testing and compiling some more.
We know that takes a lot of your Admin time Simon so hopefully you will still have some time for witty come backs :).
But on the positive side we are about to give you both sides of the story. All though we try to be fair we do usually tend to side with the big M$ because that is what we do after all. But we are not by far linux haters or penguin killers (It has its place) so we welcome Simon into the AskTheAdmin family and look forward to some heated discussions! GAME ON!
Thu 19 Jul 2007
Head 2 Head series.
Posted by psymon101 under General Information
We have a new guest Blogger, Karl from Asktheadmin.com , Karl lives and breathes Microsoft, blinded by them even? So why let this crazed loon on Sigmund? Because
it helps you, I generally live by the Penguin and Karl by the assimilation team, Microsoft.So what’s the benefits of this new series to you? Well we will be exploring topics
of what what is best for any certain situation, but because he gets a quick buck
from Microsoft to spout out unconditional garbage about MS products he will
be trying to push why MS is the way to go, and I will throwing back why
Linux is the way to go.After each head-2-head session we will have a summary of the pros and cons
for each platform/application so you can decide for yourself, we do the research,
you reap the fruits..Let either Karl or myself know if you have any questions/suggestions, by the
way, make sure your email doesn’t have any form of attachment, even a v-card
since Karls 50 virus killers will block your email..
Ohhhh and BTW: Wow they have come a long way Linux boxes can read V-cards now??
Hit us up in the comments are you pro MS or pro Linux?
Sam sayz
My turn
Drivers, he does have a point, some drivers need compiling, but one could term that as initial time investment, since an MS server may require time investment over the course of its production life:) alot more time than a few drivers..:) You know, the usual deal of offending software:)
As Karl mentioned, we are not really MS haters, it also has its place, so we welcome his
Gates fanclub also…….. The need someone to look up to dont they :)So lets get the ball rolling.. You have just been hired as an Admin for an ISP who need
your experience to setup the Infrastructure, mail, dns, web.. I think we should mail first
POP3/IMAP/SMTP.Karl, what would you choose?:)
Boo yah! Good question. But it depends on the needs of the organization. If it was a small company with no need for Black Berry support my choice would be IPSwitch’s IMail 2006 running on a Windows 2003 standard box. I won’t go into hardware specs; We will save that for another time.
Its not Microsoft are you shocked? But looking back at the question it is suppose to be an ISP so…
Lets step into a real environment with 100+ domains linked up across international sites connected by VPN’s and supporting hundreds of thousands of users. For this I would choose Microsoft Exchange 2003 running SQL 2005 as the backed. Windows 2003 Server Data Center in a clustered environment. I would separate the front and back ends across multiple servers and set up redundant and fail over machines. I would set up my backup mx record to point to an external data-center with a much lower priority to facilitate any fail overs necessary. Got to achieve those 5 9′s right Steve?
Exchange will provide us with OWA or Outlook Web Access, SMTP, POP3 and IMAP. I will go one step further to recommend Mcafee Enterprise 8.5.1 for content/virus scanning. A Barracuda hardware appliance for spam filtering and secondary virus/content scanning.
Did I miss anything Stan?
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about 4 years ago
sounds like a good idea i bet those linux guys are lusting after this now
about 4 years ago
That is hysterical – why would one want a linux toaster? Proof of concept?
about 4 years ago
Totally Microsoft. I believe the vertical integration has simplified my life as an Admin; the cost is a lot but in the end the ease of use is far more valuable than the cost of the software and all the damn CAL’s.
about 4 years ago
I’m with you Jon. I have been using microsoft for over 6 years now and before that i was all about unix. MS definately simplified my life.
VOTE MS! Lets ask this guy why would someone rather use unix or linux or ubuntu over windows. is it for sheer KOOL factor?
about 4 years ago
what about MAC? i love my mac. not my iphone as much but i love my mac. couldnt see being on any other os.
about 4 years ago
that toaster is great where can i get 1?
about 4 years ago
Here’s where I am going to sound like an effete jackass, but here it goes….
I am neither.
I am a standards person.
I believe that business, and yes this is ALL about business, is best achieved when I as the IT MGR/CIO get to determine what is the best arrangement for me, rather than to have a vendor decide for me what they feel is the best way to do things and accomplish my goals.
I like interoperability, and operating system agnostic applications.
I like apps that talk to other apps with minimal integration because they are standards compliant, and the highest possible security.
I believe in inexpensive software and finding the least expensive way to accomplish the desired goal without having to find something that is simplified.
I believe that security through obscurity is a GOOD thing.
I believe that a homogeneous environment of any kind is a disaster waiting to happen.
I believe that putting too much stock in one vendor is a bad decision for business.
I believe that we, as in IT need to be flexible and easily adaptable to the ever changing business objectives, which cannot happen in a situation where you are dealing with proprietary products that are resistant to standards and attempt to keep you in revolving doors of their upgrades and planned obsolescence.
I believe making your life easier as an admin through homogeneity is a prescription for the unemployment line.
I believe systems do not need to be overly complicated and that this debate is not a religious one, and anyone who puts themselves in any particular camp and refuses to look outside is a hack at best and missing out on doing really exciting things as an admin and most importantly, learning about new technologies and ideas.
I see this as playing it safe, accepting mediocrity and making sure your systems run as the lowest common denominator, and while your uptime might be out to 5 9′s, the level of services you provide is less than it could be.
Commence the flame war.
Regards,
The Slothman
about 4 years ago
Who would call you a jackass sloth?
Let me just clear something up I only say I am leaning towards the MS side because that is what I do. I install support and fix Windows technology on a day to day basis.
Like I said before flavors of linux or even a Mac in some situations is the best machine for the job.
Like I said my mail filtering and web filtering is all done on linux. But all my file servers and domain controllers are the big MS.
If I need to do something quickly and effectively I build out with Windows.
I don’t think the argument should be which is better how about what OS’s do you use for SPECIFIC tasks. Like I know most of you run Exchange – that has to be on windows (Unless you Linux Gurus Found A Way To BootLeg This?)
The 5 9′s of uptime along with being able to give your enterprise EVERYTHING they need to do their jobs and the support they need to run it is the sure way to guarantee success.
Where there is a job there is an Admin with a way. Different people pick methods to go about solving the issue.
Don’t get me wrong i have tried to switch to Open Office – I have even tried out running Ubuntu on some machines. I was hunted down like Frankenstien by all the villagers (end users) who couldnt do what they needed to do.
Needless to say I showed them how to do what they needed to easily – but by the next day all those machine were right back on windows.
typed from my mobile device please excuse any typos and ramblings…
about 4 years ago
what about MAC? i love my mac. not my iphone as much but i love my mac. couldnt see being on any other os.
about 4 years ago
Karl,
I wasn’t so much pointing at you with my comments on the MS or Penguin crew, because you’ve demonstrated that you’re open to ideas, thus this blog!
But rather there is a MAJOR segment of our industry that is so tied up in the religious discussion of MS v. Linux/Mac and it is useless. If you’re going to design your systems to buck MS…well then you’ll miss out on some things. And vice versa!
But if an admin is not worried about the cost of all their MS licensing, for the sake of simplicity then they are making a huge mistake and exposing themselves to a world of problems.
Case in point, our Project Management software here is currently in a version(haven’t upgraded to the latest which doesn’t do this) that is HEAVY on ActiveX and written solely for IE. I don’t want to use it because it has opened us up to a lot of spyware/adware/bugs because of the reduced security needed for the app to run right…..What about Slammer??? Remember that one?? Run that homogeneous MS environment with a lot of SQL server going and a new type of Slammer bug shows up…guess what…you’re out of business for a while!
You’ve pointed out some Mac bugs…I am sure those bugs can work on their Xservers and down their xRaids.
It’s a matter of having all your eggs in one basket for the sake of convenience.
I use the MS example because they tend to use the same core components in all their applications, so in essence whether you think you’re not all in one basket or not, you really are. Would anyone of us feel secure if we put all our apps on one physical server??? HELL NO! That is so 1997! It is the same mentality and methodology is all I am saying.
My purpose for these posts is not to sway anyone, rather to get people to realize the real challenges to IT and that is to get things standardized and for our own personal careers to be as diverse as possible because like it or not, we all hit the job market at some time and the more skills, the better.
I hope my brash nature in the way I communicate doesn’t offend anyone, rather it makes them think introspectively about their careers, what they do and the value they add to their employers as well as the possible fun they can have with their jobs by doing new and exciting things.
about 4 years ago
I Agree with you also sloth. particularly “I believe that a homogeneous environment of any kind is a disaster waiting to happen” for security but also for the end users because that what it is all about in the end; enabling them to work comfortably and most effectively. I do run Linux for my filtering needs. Standards are the best, they really are because that helps things to just work. I myself on my two main machines at home run XP and CentOS because i like both of the worlds. With that being said some of MS products just don’t work well and therefore i get the required services elsewhere and some Linux services don’t functional as ideally as i would like so i get them elsewhere. What i am looking forward to the most is the specific examples of why people choose MS or Linux or Something else for a task because that is how I can learn about something else.
-Jon
about 4 years ago
Jon that was really deep and made me go wow he is totally right.
I have been sitting on the sidelines reading, observing and what not and now I would like to chime in with I too would love to hear what Ask The Admin readers use which OS for which applications. I welcome new ideas as to help me learn.
i am all ears.
about 4 years ago
Alot of good comments on the whole MS vs Linux situation.
Slothman raises some grand points and I feel that each everyone has different experiences which reflects thier opinion on what to use.
The purpose of the Debate/Head-2-head deal, Karl can correct me if I am wrong, is to find out the good and bad points of each platform in certain environments or applications running on those platforms.
For instance, I prefer Postfix for a mail server, Karl might prefer Exchange or KerioMail etc.. Why do we prefer these? What in our admin history has led us to this conclusion. I feel that this will be pretty beneficial, also the added element of Karl and I fighting it out! This will encourage us to do more research on our experiences also.
Each session as I mentioned will provide pros and cons for each, detailed ones so you as a CIO/Admin can evaluate your choices.
about 4 years ago
I for one like both as stated above the right tool for the right job. i like both does that make me a goon fan boy?
we seem to take the easiest road in my shop. so we do a lot of pc stuff preconfigured from dell. but we have all our back end running linux. that was setup by consultants.
about 4 years ago
that toaster is great where can i get 1?
about 4 years ago
microsoft good linux bad
about 4 years ago
Jon that was really deep and made me go wow he is totally right.
I have been sitting on the sidelines reading, observing and what not and now I would like to chime in with I too would love to hear what Ask The Admin readers use which OS for which applications. I welcome new ideas as to help me learn.
i am all ears.
about 4 years ago
Alot of good comments on the whole MS vs Linux situation.
Slothman raises some grand points and I feel that each everyone has different experiences which reflects thier opinion on what to use.
The purpose of the Debate/Head-2-head deal, Karl can correct me if I am wrong, is to find out the good and bad points of each platform in certain environments or applications running on those platforms.
For instance, I prefer Postfix for a mail server, Karl might prefer Exchange or KerioMail etc.. Why do we prefer these? What in our admin history has led us to this conclusion. I feel that this will be pretty beneficial, also the added element of Karl and I fighting it out! This will encourage us to do more research on our experiences also.
Each session as I mentioned will provide pros and cons for each, detailed ones so you as a CIO/Admin can evaluate your choices.
about 4 years ago
I for one like both as stated above the right tool for the right job. i like both does that make me a goon fan boy?
we seem to take the easiest road in my shop. so we do a lot of pc stuff preconfigured from dell. but we have all our back end running linux. that was setup by consultants.
about 4 years ago
microsoft good linux bad
about 4 years ago
lmfao!!!! point windows!
about 4 years ago
I think you got the linux guys name wrong several times.
about 4 years ago
it was suppose to be funny keep up. and keep it comming
about 4 years ago
Back to you Karl:)
http://www.sigmundvoid.com/?p=72
about 4 years ago
If you look at ur poll you have more combined linux users then pc. maybe ur barking up the wrong tree.
about 4 years ago
lmfao!!!! point windows!
about 4 years ago
I think you got the linux guys name wrong several times.
about 4 years ago
it was suppose to be funny keep up. and keep it comming
about 4 years ago
Back to you Karl:)
http://www.sigmundvoid.com/?p=72 “>http://www.sigmundvoid.com/?p=72
about 4 years ago
Back to you Karl:)
http://www.sigmundvoid.com/?p=72 “>http://www.sigmundvoid.com/?p=72
about 4 years ago
I agree with Sam. Depends on what you need. I actually had an excellent conversation with one of our Windows Developers.
I’m totally a mac fanboy. . but a mac isn’t for everyone. Neither is Linux.
about 4 years ago
If you look at ur poll you have more combined linux users then pc. maybe ur barking up the wrong tree.
about 4 years ago
couldn’t have said it better Karl. you are very though and on point
about 4 years ago
Its sure quite in the MS camp, or is Karl busy getting a loan to pay for the licensing of his Exchange server:)
about 4 years ago
Whats quiet? I am reading over my multitude of emails while looking at my empty queue on my support line.
We still haven’t heard from ANY of your readers and as for securing a loan… The money is put up by VC of real companies with real budgets…
Where is your support? t seems your peoples have left you out to dry.
about 4 years ago
@john h from above: Its got o be the right tools for the right job. a good mechanic or electric has a whole tool box full of tools.
I could not get black berry support going on the linux side reliably. It worked but not 4 long. On our windows production machine and test platforms it was a breeze.
@everyb0dy Free software or excuse me, open source software, has its pitfalls. Mainly like no REAL support. No matter how much you hate microsoft they can always give ytou a solution or workaround. Trying to get support on the linux box now thats a big different story. Been there done that. Tried to save my comp a few duckets and what did i get for my troubles?
A BIG FUCK YOU!
from executives and users alike. I spent 3 long nites reverting and perfecting everything backto “NORMAL”. We are back up on Exchange 2007 and BES. Its smooth again and running like it should.
No late night trips to the idc and more time with my family. Who’s with me?
Stop being close minded and blinded by your hate for the DARK SIDE as the admin so boldly put it.
Anything i need from my lonely penguin i hit up on the virtuilization boxes running on windows platform.
Yes that is the right box for the job.
about 4 years ago
Justblaze:
It sounds like you had a terrible time, using Linux can be a pain I will be the first to agree, over time you get to know its nuances and work from there, support
is free, but selective, after a while experience builds and you can spot the issues and fix accordingly.
Karl:My blog is kinda new:) Havent got such a dedicated readership as yet:)
Pity the linux guy:)
about 4 years ago
Its sure quite in the MS camp, or is Karl busy getting a loan to pay for the licensing of his Exchange server:)
about 4 years ago
JUSTBLAZE:
The trick to working with Open Source software, is to find ones with great seed capital, like Zimbra, Scalix, to name two, and that have large communities of other admins out there in the trenches.
Find those two things, and your support is there.
Just like the development and licensing, the openness of Open Source is all about the Community. You need them, and they need you.
about 4 years ago
Justblaze:
It sounds like you had a terrible time, using Linux can be a pain I will be the first to agree, over time you get to know its nuances and work from there, support
is free, but selective, after a while experience builds and you can spot the issues and fix accordingly.
Karl:My blog is kinda new:) Havent got such a dedicated readership as yet:)
Pity the linux guy:)
about 4 years ago
i like the toaster too! can i buy one?
about 4 years ago
JUSTBLAZE:
The trick to working with Open Source software, is to find ones with great seed capital, like Zimbra, Scalix, to name two, and that have large communities of other admins out there in the trenches.
Find those two things, and your support is there.
Just like the development and licensing, the openness of Open Source is all about the Community. You need them, and they need you.
about 4 years ago
i like the toaster too! can i buy one?